Christine Fair

[SciFi Chick]

How is this okay?

[code monkey]

How is this okay?

who said that it was? her statement was denounced by the president of her university. what would you have happen?

[SciFiFisher]

It's not OK. But, that does seem to be where we are these days. I must admit that while I won't publically broadcast it I am a bit impatient about the impending demise of quite a few people in this society.

[SciFi Chick]

How is this okay?

who said that it was? her statement was denounced by the president of her university. what would you have happen?

There is this habit of firing people on the right when they misbehave but defending people on the left. I don't like it.

[squ1d]

I regularly hope for the miserable deaths for some people on the right.

[Rommie]

Short answer is you’d be amazed at how little a university can do once someone has tenure beyond what they did. Especially if this is a first offense.

[SciFi Chick]

Short answer is you’d be amazed at how little a university can do once someone has tenure beyond what they did. Especially if this is a first offense.

That's a fair answer. I shall research further.

[Cyborg Girl]

@SFC

Freedom of speech, yo. If Jordan Peterson can publicly hate on a bunch of marginalized groups and still teach at U of Toronto, and that's totally okay, then this public display of misandry is also okay. The men in her classes can go ahead and be offended, right?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[SciFi Chick]

@SFC

Freedom of speech, yo. If Jordan Peterson can publicly hate on a bunch of marginalized groups and still teach at U of Toronto, and that's totally okay, then this public display of misandry is also okay. The men in her classes can go ahead and be offended, right?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Except you're lying about Jordan Peterson.

And Guardians of the Galaxy has been ruined.

And Roseanne got fired.

And men are being declared guilty based on accusations alone.

But it's okay to call for genocide on straight white men.

Well fuck all of you genocidal maniacs. I was raised that racism is wrong. No matter the race.

Fuck identity politics.

Fuck this whiny marginalized people bullshit.

Fuck communism.

Fuck post modernism.

P.S. If you think (erroneously) that someone not using a preferred pronoun is equivalent to an incitement to genocide, you are a piece of shit.

[Cyborg Girl]

Your post above is so densely Not Even Wrong I'm not even sure where to start. But I think it's telling that, of all the bullshit Peterson is pushing, you assume in this case I'm talking specifically about him being a douchebag about pronouns. And more telling that you assume I want white men wiped out a la Valerie Solanas. And still more telling that, for all this alarmism and assumption, you think I'm the one who is out of touch with reality.

[SciFi Chick]

Your post above is so densely Not Even Wrong I'm not even sure where to start. But I think it's telling that, of all the bullshit Peterson is pushing, you assume in this case I'm talking specifically about him being a douchebag about pronouns. And more telling that you assume I want white men wiped out a la Valerie Solanas. And still more telling that, for all this alarmism and assumption, you think I'm the one who is out of touch with reality.

No, Sweetheart - you DON'T get to post vaguely and then accuse me for not understanding. You referred to Peterson's hate with no quantifiers, and in the past, you have been very upset with him for your belief that he won't use correct pronouns. So, if you want to vague post and then complain when I don't get it, you don't get to say that it's "telling". You can fuck right off. Say what you mean. And if you don't say what you mean do NOT fucking blame me for not getting it. I am not a mind reader, and I never claimed to be a mind reader, so if you aren't clear in your communication, I will reiterate that you don't get to claim that my referring to your past posts is somehow telling.

And I maintain my belief that you are completely and totally out of touch with reality. You don't give a shit about what I've been through. You have no memory of knowing me over the past ten years. I have been there for you, but it doesn't matter. I dared to disagree on identity politics so you can treat me like I'm dirt on your shore.

I've had enough. I have no more patience for you. I've been really really patient. I haven't even touched on what I've been through. And if I did, then you'd change your mind. But unless I'm enough of a victim, you aren't interested. Which is EXACTLY what is wrong with your world view.

You can't form a good argument, so you'll just vague post and then accuse me of bias. I tell ya what. You want to have an honest conversation? Let me know. Otherwise, you can go fuck yourself. Because I'm not the least bit interested in your victimhood. I'm not the least bit interested in comparing victimhood. Do NOT try to tell me what life like a woman is like you fucking poser.


"

[Rommie]

@SFC

Freedom of speech, yo. If Jordan Peterson can publicly hate on a bunch of marginalized groups and still teach at U of Toronto, and that's totally okay, then this public display of misandry is also okay. The men in her classes can go ahead and be offended, right?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Psst- Peterson is actually on leave this year. Of his own choice on the lecture circuit mind, but let’s just say that’s a decision of mutual benefit to both parties.

[Cyborg Girl]

@Rommie

Thanks for the correction, I didn't know. My bad.

[Cyborg Girl]

@SFC

yeah I think I'm also done. I can't block you because you're an admin, so I'mma just leave here.

Thanks for being there for me so much back in the day. Things changed.

[squ1d]

Can we all just go back to suppressing our fury and making snide comments?

Having occupied the historical role of King of The Trolls and Baiters, it might sound a bit rich coming from me, but let's show a bit of patience.

Conducting a meaningful and respectful argument with someone you totally disagree with is difficult.

As much as I like grabbing the popcorn at moments like these, our fragile little microcommunity can't survive many more of these schisms.

Mike would be sad

[SciFi Chick]

I will take it down a notch. Sometimes, I lose patience with getting condescended to when having a differing opinion. I apologize.

*edited to correct grammar

[squ1d]

Noice SFC.

Please don't run away Cybergirl.

I'm (mostly) left of centre politically. Sometimes I think what you're writing is dumb. But on many issues I'm a lot nearer you than SFC.

Surely the world is doomed if we give up confronting each other and retreat into our safe spaces.

I believe the disconnection between left and right, caused by smugness and echo chambers, is what has allowed bad things like President Trump and Brexit to exist.

I remember arguing about all sorts of dumb shit on here when I was at University. I think it was good preparation for admitting I was wrong about various things as I slowly learned to ply my trade. 17ish years later I think it made me a better person. Excuse my tangent, that's probably just a squ1d thing, but if there is one thing that this place hasn't achieved, and social media has, it is tailored algorithms ensuring a collection of non-intersecting echo chambers. A really shitty Venn diagram.

Let's all relentlessly try to convince each other that we're retarded instead.

[squ1d]

Like, semi respectfully I mean.

I'm really not a natural at this role.

[SciFi Chick]

Noice SFC.

Please don't run away Cybergirl.

I agree. Running away or trying to block me is not useful.

I'm (mostly) left of centre politically. Sometimes I think what you're writing is dumb. But on many issues I'm a lot nearer you than SFC.

I'm mostly center. I find it sad that center is now considered rightwing.

Surely the world is doomed if we give up confronting each other and retreat into our safe spaces.

100% agreement.

I believe the disconnection between left and right, caused by smugness and echo chambers, is what has allowed bad things like President Trump and Brexit to exist.

Also agree 100%.

I remember arguing about all sorts of dumb shit on here when I was at University. I think it was good preparation for admitting I was wrong about various things as I slowly learned to ply my trade. 17ish years later I think it made me a better person. Excuse my tangent, that's probably just a squ1d thing, but if there is one thing that this place hasn't achieved, and social media has, it is tailored algorithms ensuring a collection of non-intersecting echo chambers. A really shitty Venn diagram.

Let's all relentlessly try to convince each other that we're retarded instead.

I've just now gotten to the place where I can argue ideas without getting my feelings hurt. Most of the time, I can ignore personal insults as well. I'm working on it.

[SciFi Chick]

Like, semi respectfully I mean.

I'm really not a natural at this role.

We all seem to be taking on new roles. Fascinating.

[squ1d]

Well that being said, I'll have a crack at expressing why I think you have drifted rightwards.

When an event like the confirmation of Kavanaugh has occurred, you seem more interested in reactions of "people from the left" than the significance of the event itself. So take this Christine Fair person. As inappropriate as her comments may be, and as shit as a person she may be, she is currently convinced a rapist has been admitted to the supreme court. You are not, but imagine that you were for a second. She is obviously experiencing an intense emotional reaction. Now that may not excuse her behaviour, but to me it puts her story to the level of a footnote at best.

The real issue for me is what does it mean for Kavanaugh to be confirmed? Not so for you. You are jumping on this non-story, I think because of this perceived sense of injustice between the treatment of "right" and "left". Correct me if I'm wrong.

You bring up the Clintons with a regularity that I find baffling. Usually at the expense of actually talking about the problem at hand. Infact, I'd say overall, you seem more interested attacking people on the left for being hypocritical than whatever is currently happening.

I don't know if I told this story before, but I may have. I used to be fairly centre-right in my views. I had (and still have) a friend who was (and is) EXTREMELY cognisant of Australian political movements and machinations. We'd often have arguments about political news items, whether it be about a new policy announcement, or a media beat-up on a particular politician. It finally reached a point where when discussing the NDIS, he rattled off a list of upcoming bills and asked me my opinion about them. Fact was, I had no idea what they were. Fact was, I didn't follow the actual source material of politics here whatsoever. I think I debated as best as I could, which wasn't very well, and later went home. After stewing for a while, I decided I was going to do better, be less ignorant. For a year I read the news incessantly, and most importantly, watched every single session of Question Time in parliament. As noted in Hansard. What I learnt in that year permanently changed my vote from swinging to left.

Why? I realised that my personal values: Fairness, equality, giving people a fair go, the importance of education for all, the importance of healthcare for all, etc, etc, were quite simply values of the left.

Tangent: To use something posted by someone here earlier on Facebook, there was another part to the story which made this History less narrative-like. It happened to be the year Tony Abbott subverted QT by calling for a suspension of standing orders just about every session, so he could spend 15 minutes calling Julia Gillard a mole, unrebutted. He is an enormous cunt.

.. but anyway. Since then I've followed much more keenly than I did when I was younger. And by no means do I suggest everyone would reach my conclusion. But I'd hope they'd realize this: your political leaning should align with your values.

Conservatives have values too. To quote the DEFINER OF ALL TRUTH (WIKIPEDIA): "Conservatism is a political and social philosophy promoting traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization." There are many forms, but in a nutshell, their values do fuck all for me. And those values have opposed every human rights advance ever, because that advance was not "The Way Things Were(tm)". After a period of time, a new normal is integrated into society and the goalposts shift, but by then we've all forgotten the viewpoints of 5 minutes ago.

To repeat: by no means am I suggesting that "following more closely" will make you a lefty. What I am saying is that your values should align with your politics.

To me, being a centrist used to be a virtue. Now I just view it as confused indecision.

I look forward to your spirited riposte.

[SciFi Chick]

Wow. It's been so long since someone wanted to have a coherent discussion along these lines that it will take me awhile to formulate a response. I'll be back...

[SciFi Chick]

Well that being said, I'll have a crack at expressing why I think you have drifted rightwards.

When an event like the confirmation of Kavanaugh has occurred, you seem more interested in reactions of "people from the left" than the significance of the event itself. So take this Christine Fair person. As inappropriate as her comments may be, and as shit as a person she may be, she is currently convinced a rapist has been admitted to the supreme court. You are not, but imagine that you were for a second. She is obviously experiencing an intense emotional reaction. Now that may not excuse her behaviour, but to me it puts her story to the level of a footnote at best.

The real issue for me is what does it mean for Kavanaugh to be confirmed? Not so for you. You are jumping on this non-story, I think because of this perceived sense of injustice between the treatment of "right" and "left". Correct me if I'm wrong.

No. I thought she was putting forward a political agenda. Now, someone has come forward to admit he might have assaulted her, which I find incredibly weird, but whatever. I mean, why would you come forward? Just keep letting everyone believe it's Kavanaugh. So, I literally don't know what to believe right now. But, I will say that I thought she had an agenda and I thought she was a liar. Not sure how that is evidence that I've "drifted right."

You bring up the Clintons with a regularity that I find baffling. Usually at the expense of actually talking about the problem at hand. Infact, I'd say overall, you seem more interested attacking people on the left for being hypocritical than whatever is currently happening.

I don't actually see the Clintons as "the left" for the record. And I can't stand them, and I can't understand why they've gotten away with so much. Call it an Achilles heel, but again, it does not mean I've drifted right. Forget not that I voted for Obama twice, happily, and I voted for Hillary. I consider that a mistake now, but my only other option would have been writing in Sanders, and I was very stressed and confused at the time.

I don't know if I told this story before, but I may have. I used to be fairly centre-right in my views. I had (and still have) a friend who was (and is) EXTREMELY cognisant of Australian political movements and machinations. We'd often have arguments about political news items, whether it be about a new policy announcement, or a media beat-up on a particular politician. It finally reached a point where when discussing the NDIS, he rattled off a list of upcoming bills and asked me my opinion about them. Fact was, I had no idea what they were. Fact was, I didn't follow the actual source material of politics here whatsoever. I think I debated as best as I could, which wasn't very well, and later went home. After stewing for a while, I decided I was going to do better, be less ignorant. For a year I read the news incessantly, and most importantly, watched every single session of Question Time in parliament. As noted in Hansard. What I learnt in that year permanently changed my vote from swinging to left.

Why? I realised that my personal values: Fairness, equality, giving people a fair go, the importance of education for all, the importance of healthcare for all, etc, etc, were quite simply values of the left.

Those are values that I completely believe in. Not entirely sure if healthcare and education for all is even an option in the current corrupt society I live in, but I support that 100%. I think fairness, equality and giving people a fair go is exactly the entire purpose of living in a society. Where I think we disagree, is this idea that women are really being abused and white men are privileged and/or evil. That's not me going to the right. That's me having a different point of view.

Tangent: To use something posted by someone here earlier on Facebook, there was another part to the story which made this History less narrative-like. It happened to be the year Tony Abbott subverted QT by calling for a suspension of standing orders just about every session, so he could spend 15 minutes calling Julia Gillard a mole, unrebutted. He is an enormous cunt.

Can't stand Tony Abbott OR Julia Gillard. So, there ya go.

Conservatives have values too. To quote the DEFINER OF ALL TRUTH (WIKIPEDIA): "Conservatism is a political and social philosophy promoting traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization." There are many forms, but in a nutshell, their values do fuck all for me. And those values have opposed every human rights advance ever, because that advance was not "The Way Things Were(tm)". After a period of time, a new normal is integrated into society and the goalposts shift, but by then we've all forgotten the viewpoints of 5 minutes ago.

See, I tend to think that tug of war is necessary. It's not always the best thing to jump into the new new thing, and it's definitely not always a good idea to reject it. The sexual revolution has not done us any favors, as an example.

To me, being a centrist used to be a virtue. Now I just view it as confused indecision.

I look forward to your spirited riposte.

We definitely disagree on what being a centrist is. To me, being a centrist means that some of my values align with conservatives and some of them align with liberals. If you like, I can list out all of my values, in addition to the ones listed above, but I'm not sure what the point of that would be. I just think the conservatives are right about some things and so are the liberals. But everyone on here is liberal, and my husband got chased away for even daring to question things. Now, I'm questioning things, because it's fucking boring to agree on everything.

Finally, just because I don't think Trump is Hitler means I'm a Trump supporter, but hell yeah, I hate the Clintons, and if she runs again, I don't know if I'll vote for Trump, write someone in or not vote at all, and I'm a little bit tired of being pilloried for that outlook. Is that spirited enough for you?

Also, apologies for taking so long. When I finally get my memoirs written, you'll understand.

[SciFiFisher]

See, I tend to think that tug of war is necessary. It's not always the best thing to jump into the new new thing, and it's definitely not always a good idea to reject it. The sexual revolution has not done us any favors, as an example.

I really thought it did. For example, it took until 1995 before the last state finally made it a crime to rape your wife. And made it possible for her to actually file charges against her husband. I see that as a direct result of the "sexual revolution". Without acknowledging that women had the right to determine their own sexuality and the right to say no they may have not had the right to say no to sex within the marriage for a lot longer. As it was they had the right to vote a lot longer than they had the right to say no.

[SciFi Chick]

See, I tend to think that tug of war is necessary. It's not always the best thing to jump into the new new thing, and it's definitely not always a good idea to reject it. The sexual revolution has not done us any favors, as an example.

I really thought it did. For example, it took until 1995 before the last state finally made it a crime to rape your wife. And made it possible for her to actually file charges against her husband. I see that as a direct result of the "sexual revolution". Without acknowledging that women had the right to determine their own sexuality and the right to say no they may have not had the right to say no to sex within the marriage for a lot longer. As it was they had the right to vote a lot longer than they had the right to say no.

Well, I have no way of knowing how to verify your assessment of the sexual revolution, but just today, I read that STDs have increased by 200,000 in the last year. Then again, maybe that has nothing to do with the sexual revolution either.

I think it's absolutely awesome that women have agency in their marriages and dating life now, but I'm concerned that, in general, women tend to be more emotional, and lots of sex outside of marriage seems to affect them adversely.

Believe me, I'm a big scifi fan. Thus, the name. And I really want it to be that we all have sex whenever we want to with or without emotional attachment and it's a bit like picking what restaurant we want to go to, but that seems to be having an adverse affect on society.

Then again, it's hard to narrow it all down. Dammit - I need to go back to school and get that degree in sociology. Clearly, I'm obsessed with it.