Coronavirus

[pumpkinpi]

I found out the end of this week that three delights of summer are cancelled. Buster's soccer league, summer camps, and the Minnesota State Fair. It's starting to sink in. We really are in this for the long haul.

I long for the time when the kids can get out and play with friends again. MrPi and I really are fine with just our family as company. But this is wearing on Buster especially.

[SciFiFisher]

@geonuc

Interesting. I bet that like a lot of things in the US it varies a lot by state and geographic region.

@Rommie

Yeah, absolutely the right decision. Best of luck with the wedding once this has blown over!

Re haircuts, I'm just sticking with a mohawk and letting the top grow out. Easy to cut and maintain, looks good on me, and I'm pretty sure it helps keep the bros out of my face...

The Mad Max look probably intimidates them.

[SciFiFisher]

I found out the end of this week that three delights of summer are cancelled. Buster's soccer league, summer camps, and the Minnesota State Fair. It's starting to sink in. We really are in this for the long haul.

I long for the time when the kids can get out and play with friends again. MrPi and I really are fine with just our family as company. But this is wearing on Buster especially.

We have one family with two kids that we started letting come over to play with the boy. And they reciprocate and allow him to come over for playtime with the kids. It's not like we had a huge circle to begin with but that has been the only real social interaction we have engaged in since the start of this. We haven't even been to see our family who lives in the immediate area. Partly because my brother is considered essential by his employer the National Guard and I am considered essential by my employer the VA. So, the fewer people we interact with the better.

It's a risk. But, It's done wonders for his mood.

[Swift]

Ohio is opening up, but nothing much is changing in our household. I think we are going to have another peak and I'd like to avoid it. We are still doing the majority of our grocery shopping by delivery (about once a week my wife will run out for a short pick up needed items), I am still working from home, "eating out" is still either delivery or I go pick it up, and the only other time we go out is walks around the neighborhood or on a trail (but social distancing applies), or putzing around our own yard. I am actually planning on going back into work Wednesday afternoon to look a piece of equipment with a vendor, but that will be the first time in 3 months, and I don't plan to do it regularly. And we have to take a cat or two into the vet on Tuesday, they seem to have a little stomach bug.

I'm going to hold off on a haircut till mid-June. And our anniversary is June 17 and we are thinking of actually going out to a restaurant. Other than that it will be shelter in place.

[pumpkinpi]

I really want to become that facebook bitch that posts "where's your mask?" when people share picture of them out and about. One was my cousin and his family, young children, at the beach. Another was a friend fishing. I guess I could go a bit kinder and say, "I hope you're staying safe. Are you and others wearing masks?"

[lady_*nix]

@pumpkinpi

SAME. Profoundly, exhaustedly same.

[SciFiFisher]

I really want to become that facebook bitch that posts "where's your mask?" when people share picture of them out and about. One was my cousin and his family, young children, at the beach. Another was a friend fishing. I guess I could go a bit kinder and say, "I hope you're staying safe. Are you and others wearing masks?"

I guess it depends. Do you like them?

[Rommie]

Well guys, my summer is about to be more annoying than less- my parents bought tickets to fly up to NH from Florida on Saturday.

Why annoying, you ask? After all, we spent last summer with my folks and it was fine- didn't really see each other most days until dinner. My concern is they are not taking any of this seriously- I know they are going to parties, heck sent us a picture last weekend of a dozen people on their porch, all 60+, no masks, sitting shoulder to shoulder. "But we were outside so it was fine!" My mom is really the one in denial here, and told me she thinks it's ridiculous that Massachusetts is still all shut down, even when I pointed out that thousands of people died and Boston has some of the best disease experts on the planet, because if she can't live her life normally than it's not worth living and the disease is all overblown anyway because old people like her are going to die anyway.

I mean, seriously guys, I'm not sure what you can really say against that but I'm sure as fuck going to try anyway. I'm not even really as concerned if my dad does a round of golf or they invite a couple over for an outdoor BBQ, because that's pretty low risk. But I just know if I even tell my parents they should stick around the house for a week (let alone two) lest they have coronavirus and spread it around this rural area, per recommended guidelines in NH, my mom in particular will argue about it. (And mind this is an inconvenience over a hardship for them- we're happy to do grocery/takeout runs on their behalf, and this is a plenty large place. But my mom literally just keeps saying that she survived the polio and TB era so this isn't a big deal compared to interfering with people's livelihoods. It makes me sad how anti-science my family has gotten over the years TBH.

I mean to be clear, F and I were never worried about getting it- we are statistically likely to survive even if we do, as we are fairly young and don't have any pre-existing conditions. But we're also not dicks and don't want to give it to anyone else, and I especially don't want it on my conscience if I were to give it to my father with a history of heart disease so he dies alone in the hospital after weeks of suffocating to death. Seriously, why is it so hard to understand that? Like I'd like to have my wedding this year too, and be back to work in Boston, but woe is me I have to sit on the dock extra this summer and read and do some hiking when I want to get out. Obviously this is a serious trial that I can't survive for a year.

[pumpkinpi]

Gah, that sucks.

This is your house, your rules. Since they (presumably) didn't ask your permission to stay there, you can require they isolate for 2 weeks after arriving.

Extreme? Yes, but this is an extreme time. Honestly, if this were me, I would tell them if they don't follow these rules they are not allowed to come. Period. And they have to follow the rules of the state they are in. Don't give your mom the chance to argue. But this TRULY is a matter of life and death. Really--most likely yes, you and F would recover just fine. But perfectly healthy people your age have died, so you are within your rights to worry about your personal health!

Ok, really, I don't know how I would actually act. That might be hard to do.

[Rommie]

It's actually the other way around is the trick- we are in New Hampshire at a place ~2 hours from Boston, and this is their house they use in the summer, but we came to crash in March and have just kept sticking around and they're happy to have us. (It's a 4 bedroom so as I said, enough room that everyone can ignore each other a lot and we were fine here last summer.) So, no, I can't tell them to not come, I'm just legit concerned their actions will kill them.

I mean, if we get to extreme loggerheads and have to move back to our apartment in Cambridge we will... but I'm not sure if that will be productive now versus keeping a dialogue.

Mind, they are planning to go visit my sister in a few weeks to see the new grandchild, and my sister has said that she won't allow them if they're not social distancing for at least a week before the visit (I told her to say two). So I'm hoping the visiting the grandkids thing will keep reckless behavior in check for now, but I'm not completely certain of that either. My mom told me a story of their friends down there who had a grandkid born and were told the same ultimatum on a visit re: two weeks, and thought that was ridiculous and decided not to go... and it was told in a "agree with how ridiculous!" that is tone to me, and I said that sounded reasonable.

[lady_*nix]

@Rommie

Oof. Sympathies. I hope you can find a workaround. Also don't discount the danger they'd be creating for you. COVID-19 is more likely to kill the elderly and unwell, but there are plenty of cases where it's been mild in older people but left their offspring dead or disabled. There's still a huge amount of randomness to it, and the risk of death is high across the board compared to flu.

I'm feeling similar about my own parents TBH. My dad is still playing gigs at nursing homes and like... yeah okay, social distancing and outdoors, but I don't want to think about the kind of droplet plume a saxophone generates. And nursing homes have been epicenters for this disease for a lot of reasons. And he and my mom are both high risk - over 70, he has chronic lung problems, and my mom has high blood pressure + autoimmune disease + prediabetes + diagnosed heart issues + gods only know what else. But my dad has been seemingly incapable of wimping out of anything as long as I've known him, and my mom has been incapable of putting up an argument to that, and neither of them will listen to me, so... IDK. Trying to convince my dad of anything is like arguing with an unusually stubborn brick wall.

[pumpkinpi]

I mean, if we get to extreme loggerheads and have to move back to our apartment in Cambridge we will... but I'm not sure if that will be productive now versus keeping a dialogue.

Ok, I didn't know the part that it is their house. That does make it hard. I'm so sorry they are putting you in this position. They made the choice to come, and you have to make a choice to respond with only crappy options. I'd probably make the choice to go back to Cambridge if they do come. "Keeping a dialogue" isn't as important right now as "stay away so none of us dies." I would totally be willing to alienate my parents for a while in the name of health.

lady_*nix, that SUCKS about your parents! WTF is up with old people? My mom is a stubborn Finn, and I'm pretty sure she would fall into that category if she weren't in chemotherapy. But right now she only leaves the house for that, and my dad picks up food and groceries, very well protected. I feel confident that they will stay safe.

[lady_*nix]

@pumpkinpi

Yeah IDK what the deal is I'm guessing it's partly machismo for the guys of that generation, and partly sheer disbelief and future shock. But then their generation grew up with prophecies of nuclear annihilation the same way our generations grew up with ones about climate change, so... IDK. I don't know what it's so hard for them to grasp.

[SciFiFisher]

People often seem to believe that no matter how serious something is it just won't happen to them. "Sure, Joe in the next county over got eaten by migrating ravenous fleshing eating bats but I am sure that cloud of bats coming towards me is just a flock of birds who will fly right on past me".

[Rommie]

Yeah I don't think it's machismo necessarily because my dad is actually more cautious than my mom. I think instead it's a fatalistic view combined in this case with a bad risk assessment- I keep hearing "don't live in fear" on local FB groups, which kind of highlights said bad risk assessment. Because it implies this is not something to be afraid of, and also manages to be judgmental if you assess otherwise.

I personally instead keep thinking of a Hungarian saying, "it's better to be afraid than to be terrified." Which kind of means "prepare for the worst so the worst doesn't happen." Guess I should just keep repeating that one to my mom.

[Rommie]

It finally happened today! Was driving to do an errand, and when I turned into a parking lot a car honked, and the passenger gave me the finger and shouted "GO HOME!" Because our car has MA plates, and of course there's no way to put a bumper sticker on it that says "we actually have been here two months and brought our own food and quarantined for two weeks when we arrived."

The funny thing about assholes btw is you immediately think about what you did wrong to prompt that behavior. Like, oooh, you think, maybe I did cut him off a little too close when I turned onto the road? But actually fuck that, pretty sure he's still an asshole.

[pumpkinpi]

Wow.
I'm convinced now that nothing that can happen in this world will bring out the good in people nor bring us closer together. Assholes will keep being assholes. Nothing's going to change.

[Rommie]

So, for those curious, parents have been on (relatively) good behavior. My dad did go golfing yesterday, and pretty sure my mom is gonna go grocery shopping today (offered to go for her, but she insists- at least she is good about wearing a mask), but otherwise they're sitting around the house so whatever, for now I'm choosing my battles. There's plenty of gardening and stuff to do, so there's that. F and I have just realized the trick is being proactive in suggesting stuff- we preemptively bought stuff for dinner and offered to cook it, keep talking about hikes and picnics on the boat we want to do, etc. Then as I said, in a few weeks they do want to go visit their first grandson, so we do get the lure of "you want to see him, right?"

I think for me the most annoying part is definitely my parents are very much of the mentality of "it's mainly deaths in nursing homes, and all old people are going to die of something, so let's live our lives." Considering the fact that my dad is 70 friggin 4, I find that a pretty detached mentality to have, to put it kindly. Like, the most upset I saw him in all our coronavirus discussions was when I said we were going to be capped at 25% at the office until the end of the calendar year, probably until there's a vaccine- "but you can't hide forever!" When I told him that there are ~500 astronomers at my office, and if we all go back that means 5 would die and we can't name which ones, he kept insisting that the older ones and immunocompromised can stay at home. As if a. that's not callous, b. the old people aren't the senior people who are a super important part of going in when they head groups etc, and c. hundreds of postdocs getting it doesn't have the risk of one dying, or giving it to others inadvertently, and that's not worth casual conversations when you can otherwise do most of your work at home. He just kept repeating that we can't hide forever.

Yeah, I think it's fair to say that most of us don't subscribe to that fatalistic mentality about this virus. BUT it turns out my brother does too! He and his wife went to Ohio last weekend for a hotel stay/ haircut/ went to West Side Market and sent pics without masks on, because basically they're bored of quarantine and decided they're not afraid of getting it and would rather get it over with. When I pointed out I'm less scared of getting it versus giving it to others, no obvious response to that. Ugh, guys.

But yeah I'm pretty sure after all these protests we are in for a second wave well before autumn, unfortunately. I guess we'll see how that goes.

[pumpkinpi]

I'll say this here because I'm comfortable with you to sound a little insensitive. I had been eagerly awaiting the reports in covid cases following the various degrees of openings some states have had, particularly the places where people just stormed the beaches. I figured it would provide some very good data for making decisions about how to proceed. I like data based decisions, and if things seem to be going well with the loosened restrictions I'd feel safer starting to go out. But with this happening, so many places around the country having gatherings that totally defy any social distancing guidelines, I am expecting quite a spike in cases anyway. Sot it would be hard to tell what was from opening up and what was from the protests and riots.

However, if there isn't so much of a spike a couple weeks after these large scale events, that would be some good data to have.

[Rommie]

For sure. I'm sure it will also become political, with those against the protests claiming the spike is due to the protests instead of increased loosening of guidelines. But there will of course be no way to know.

[lady_*nix]

TBH I'm terrified of how much the protests will increase spread, esp. among Black people who (along with Indigenous folks) are already the hardest hit by COVID. And how states may retaliate for the protests by cutting off care. The mayor of LA has already threatened to close down COVID testing clinics, apparently as a form of retaliation.

Doing stuff to support the protesters, mostly contributing to bail funds TBH because my health sucks right now. But I'm really scared where this will go. Especially as it's kind of disrupted the multistate alliances vs. Trump thing, since the more liberal states and the fascists in the Trump administration can now have what they see as a common enemy.

This sucks and I'm scared.

[lady_*nix]

Also IDK how much people have been following but the behavior of police has been completely out to lunch. Firing rubber bullets at street medics and journalists, arresting journalists on live TV, firing rubber bullets at people's heads and necks as a matter of course. There's one image circulating of a Black man facing off against officers with his very young daughter on his shoulders, and the officers aiming their guns at his face or at the kid or both.

It gives me some hope that there are solidarity protests worldwide against the US govt's violence towards its own citizens (seriously, look at this https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/ ... 83298?s=21 ) but I just feel like we're falling closer and closer to dictatorship and/or complete civil war.

[Rommie]

You should join Back Room if you're not in it yet.

[SciFiFisher]

Here in California, a number of the testing sites have closed to avoid getting caught up in the riots and etc. That definitely complicates things. And of course, because of all of that "social interaction" they are expecting a surge in coronavirus cases. Yikes!!

[lady_*nix]

@Rommie

I'm not, can someone add me?