Coronavirus

[Thumper]

I watched a video recently about how the pandemic has screwed up international commerce and manufacturing in ways you might not expect. Started off with the rental car situation but then dove deeper into the ramifications of things like computer chips and shipping containers. Very interesting, and convinced me that we (the world) will not be back to normal, whatever that will be, for some years. I'd post a link but I totally forgot where I saw the video.

I listened to a long story about shipping containers. Yeah, you're right. Alot of different problems that you wouldn't think of.

[pumpkinpi]

3rd shot done. I got my flu shot at the same time. No side effects yet, but with dose 2 I felt it on day 2.

Yay for being in the 3% who get priority for another shot!

[Rommie]

3rd shot done. I got my flu shot at the same time. No side effects yet, but with dose 2 I felt it on day 2.

Yay for being in the 3% who get priority for another shot!

So, now that a little more time has passed, any side effects from this dose?

I'm curious because I was definitely out for a day after dose 2, so I'll be naturally interested in anecdotal info about side effects from dose 3 so I can plan when my turn comes.

[pumpkinpi]

Just a little off on day 2. A bit of a headache and achy. But I could function just fine. It was worse after #2. I slept half the day. I have a friend who's had the third shot, with about the same experience. So there ya go. 2 data points!

[grapes]

Just a little off on day 2. A bit of a headache and achy. But I could function just fine. It was worse after #2. I slept half the day. I have a friend who's had the third shot, with about the same experience. So there ya go. 2 data points!

We have a trend

[pumpkinpi]

"Walz: Minnesotans must learn to live 'safely' amid ongoing COVID threat."
That's from our governor. Yup, that's the era we live in.

MrPi and I have been going back and forth about whether we feel safe going to our favorite activity, the MN State Fair. It's an awesome experience, but it's packed with 1-200,000 people and there are no masks or vaccine requirements. So we've been discussing this from every angle. We will mostly be outside. There are a few completely enclosed spaces we usually go into that we'll be avoiding this year. Other favorite indoor areas, like the arcade, are open air so there is some airflow. But is all that safe enough? What about where food vendors aren't wearing masks--can they asymptomatically spread their virus on our food or does that not happen? If we go into a bathroom for just a minute or two, us masked but nobody else wearing them, how safe is that?

I went to the fair yesterday for work so I was able to scope it out. Maybe 5% were wearing masks outside. I did go in the Fine Arts building which is indoors. About 50% were masked. But it's mostly adults, and I'd say a majority are vaccinated. Other buildings--barely any masks. Not many masked vendors either. And despite people predicting attendance would be lower, it didn't seem so to me.

So it's up to us to keep ourselves safe. Nobody else is obliged to. For every decision we make we have to decide if it's worth the risk.

One think I'm struggling with is how is this different than Sturgis? We have a higher vaccine rate in MN than in SD, so does that reduce the likelihood of it being a superspreader? But there are a lot of greater MN visitors, where the vaccination rate is lower so I'm sure there's a lot of them folks walking around. If we go, are we contributors, or at the very least compliant in making this a superspreader?

[Rommie]

I think unfortunately it's not going away, and these are questions every responsible citizen has to grapple with, and with the paucity of data there just isn't much good info to answer many of the questions. I don't know how crowded the state fair gets, but I personally wouldn't worry much about outside stuff since no one seems too worried about that, but then I don't have an unvaccinated Rooster in tow.

(Side note about these events, I'm dithering right now about whether I should enter my cross stitch into the regional fair, which is the big one relatively near us this fall. On the one hand, it'd be cool to enter... on the other hand, my biggest hesitation is it's like a 45min drive away, and I have to personally drop off/ pick up my work, and I'm kinda lazy when it comes to a lot of driving! )

I confess by this point I'm more on the side personally of making sure I'm following all the current guidelines etc, and then just living my life, because we are lucky that neither of us has pre-existing conditions and we live in a very high vaccination area etc. I hate to make the comparison, but if this virus isn't going away and if vaccinated I don't see much difference between it and the risk of catching the flu, well, I guess I'm doing my thing. But I suppose that's kind of obvious if you're talking to someone who just had a wedding and went to Ecuador...

The interesting one btw on my end is I got invited at the end of September to give a colloquium at my alma mater, in Cleveland (which has a vaccine mandate for everyone, and indoor mask requirement). I was told at this point that it's hybrid whereby if I want to come give it in person I can, and of course I have great personal interest in doing so... which they say is fine, but hold off on booking travel just yet. Well, their dime I suppose! The strange one btw is there's a dear professor of mine who's turning 80 the weekend after the colloquium (such a close mentor he came to the wedding!) and they're doing one of those academic afternoon birthday bashes for him... but that will still be in person (hybrid option available) because if it's off campus they can still do it! So yeah, I feel that's a classic case of something I'm comfortable doing, but I 100% understand if someone isn't comfortable with the same. Your state fair equivalent, I guess. Hope you find a solution that works well for you.

[geonuc]

My wife and I have a trip to the Oregon coast planned early in September to attend one of her niece's wedding and we'll make a six-day vacation of it. But Oregon is currently exploding with virus, and I don't really understand why given it's largely run by science-believing politicians. As for the trip, I'm not sure I want to go.

And I don't feel well at all right now.

[lady_*nix]

@geonuc

Get together some excuses to bail on it IMO. The vaccines are good but they're not foolproof, and a wedding is pushing it - especially a wedding full of unvaccinated fools.

Edit: just for perspective, I'm not being perfect as far as prevention measures anymore since getting double-vaxxed, but I am
- continuing to wear a mask basically everywhere in public, including outdoors
- only bringing friends into my house who are likewise double-vaccinated (and not at all for now, since for the summer we have a roomie who can't get the vaccine)
- pretty much only going to public indoor places for errands, and otherwise staying outdoors (and masked) or staying home

I vaguely remember you're also on targeted immunosuppressants, as I am?

[geonuc]

@geonuc

Get together some excuses to bail on it IMO. The vaccines are good but they're not foolproof, and a wedding is pushing it - especially a wedding full of unvaccinated fools.

Edit: just for perspective, I'm not being perfect as far as prevention measures anymore since getting double-vaxxed, but I am
- continuing to wear a mask basically everywhere in public, including outdoors
- only bringing friends into my house who are likewise double-vaccinated (and not at all for now, since for the summer we have a roomie who can't get the vaccine)
- pretty much only going to public indoor places for errands, and otherwise staying outdoors (and masked) or staying home

I vaguely remember you're also on targeted immunosuppressants, as I am?

Yeah, bailing is the likely outcome I think at this point.

No immunosuppressants for me. My immune deficiency is a lack of spleen, which really only comes in to play were I to contract pneumonia or the like.

[Rommie]

For what it's worth, as someone who just had a wedding, last minute cancellations due to COVID worries (and smaller numbers in general) are really not that uncommon. And I 100% would not have done it period if I had the slightest doubt of everyone over 12 being fully vaccinated.

I confess I'd still consider doing an Oregon Coast trip though depending on booking arrangements, because it sounds gorgeous with a lot of social distancing type activities anyway. So if you're just planning to chill in an Airbnb and hike, I feel that's a pretty low risk thing to do, but yeah maybe a bit awkward if family is staying just down the road.

[pumpkinpi]

For the first time since March 5, 2020, I got the kids ready for school and put them on the bus at 7am, and then both MrPi and I went in to work. Almost exactly 1.5 years later. I won't say things are back to normal, not even the new normal, because who knows when we'll be back to that kind of stability, if ever. So it's more like, back to the same routine. The only difference is that the kids will be riding the bus home 3 days a week, so I'll be leaving work early to meet them and finishing out my day from home.

The kids are required to wear masks at school, thank god. Just like around the nation, there are already schools in Minnesota that have had to quarantine whole classes because of exposure and no mask requirements. Our kids' district is hoping to avoid that. I found out yesterday that if there is a person who tested positive with covid that the kids were in close contact with, they don't have to quarantine if they were wearing masks or fully vaccinated. We'll see how that plays out, though. What does worry me is that they have made no announcements about what happens to the kids who do test positive and have to stay home for 10 days. All they've said is there is no full time distance learning available in general, but not whether the students will be able to participate remotely from home. If one of my kids is sick, I'm not too worried about having to stay home from work, but I'm worried about the loss of instruction for that long.

The good news is Buster had shot #2 over the weekend so he's very close to fully vaccinated. Now we just wait for approval for <12 year olds!

[Rommie]

That's awesome!

We had a departmental coffee today in the courtyard, which was a first and a dozen or two people attended. Like you, everyone was just impressed at how nice and normal it was to meet with colleagues for a morning coffee! And the routine of going in to work, and seeing people, even if we are all masked the second we are inside... eh, who cares about that part.

The crazy thing is we do have some people employed by the federal government who work here (it's a complicated institute), and we are basically never seeing them forever- for example, one of the criteria for them currently is to reach <1/100k Covid cases in Massachusetts. The closest we got in July was 1.2/100k, and I hate to say it but it just doesn't strike me as realistic for a virus that's now pretty endemic. I feel like a lot of society (around here at least) is still primarily waiting so kids can be vaccinated.

Btw, did you see this article in the NY Times? They estimate the rate of breakthrough cases on any given day as 1/5000. Probably lower if you're not one for going clubbing or eating indoors. I definitely found that interesting.

[Rommie]

For the first time since March 5, 2020, I got the kids ready for school and put them on the bus at 7am, and then both MrPi and I went in to work. Almost exactly 1.5 years later. I won't say things are back to normal, not even the new normal, because who knows when we'll be back to that kind of stability, if ever. So it's more like, back to the same routine. The only difference is that the kids will be riding the bus home 3 days a week, so I'll be leaving work early to meet them and finishing out my day from home.

The kids are required to wear masks at school, thank god. Just like around the nation, there are already schools in Minnesota that have had to quarantine whole classes because of exposure and no mask requirements. Our kids' district is hoping to avoid that. I found out yesterday that if there is a person who tested positive with covid that the kids were in close contact with, they don't have to quarantine if they were wearing masks or fully vaccinated. We'll see how that plays out, though. What does worry me is that they have made no announcements about what happens to the kids who do test positive and have to stay home for 10 days. All they've said is there is no full time distance learning available in general, but not whether the students will be able to participate remotely from home. If one of my kids is sick, I'm not too worried about having to stay home from work, but I'm worried about the loss of instruction for that long.

The good news is Buster had shot #2 over the weekend so he's very close to fully vaccinated. Now we just wait for approval for <12 year olds!

Just wanted to chime in again and say your observation really is spot on the nose on this one, pumpkinpi. Not back to normal, but definitely back to the same routine. I have chatted with some folks who are back for the first time in 18 months to the office and everyone seemed so genuinely happy to be back and to see their kids off on the school bus, etc. Not the same- chatting is either with masks, or outside- but after 18 months, who the hell cares about that.

Speaking of work, I'm curious how the new mandates will work out, particularly for those that fall under the OSHA category (never doubted for a second that the government would make all their folks get vaccinated). I suspect there's a ton of people who aren't against it, but needed the nudge with paid time off to do so, but that vocal minority that believes all the conspiracies is rather vocal.

[pumpkinpi]

Arg. As you may have read in another post I kept Buster home yesterday and brought him in for a covid test due to a sore throat. Fortunately he tested negative to covid and strep.

Just got a notification that Rooster was in close contact with someone in her class who tested postive. Fortunately she doesn't have to stay home if she doesn't have symptoms. But they do recommend an immediate test because she's not vaccinated. So I'm bringing her in tomorrow. The silver lining is that the exposure was a week ago, but the school only found out today. So, that gives me hope that she's getting away unscathed!

So that's just going to be the way it is for now. My sister's had about 6 or 7 notifications in her son's school but none in his grade. Their district requires masks. The district next door doesn't, and their high school had to shut down because of 90 cases. Why are people such idiots about masks? I mean yeah, they aren't perfect. But 7 cases with masks vs 90 without--come on.

But I read there's hope for vaccine approval in young'ns by Thanksgiving!

[pumpkinpi]

Tears of joy right now......nothing's confirmed but there is finally a potential date for the vaccine rollout of 5-11 year olds. The FDA meets Nov 2-3 and the White House is making plans to have the doses ready soon after that.

I feel like saying the end is in sight. Not the end of the pandemic, but the end of my daily worry that my girl is still at risk for getting seriously sick.

After she's vaccinated we don't plan on letting our guard down much. We'll still mask and avoid large crowds until experts say it's getting safer. But we may fly to Maryland to see the family at Christmas, and perhaps go back to some of our favorite restaurants that don't have outdoor seating. But watch--after she's vaccinated, even we're still being careful, I bet we all get covid.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Got both doses of the Chinese vaccine.

[pumpkinpi]

Got both doses of the Chinese vaccine.

Yee haw!

[Rommie]

Congrats and welcome to the club!

[pumpkinpi]

Yay for vaccines. Buster was officially a close contact with a covid case last week (less than 6' away with masks off during snacktime) but we avoided quarantine due to his status. I told Rooster she needs to stay away from maskless people until she's fully vaccinated.

Goddam that's got to be hard for the school staff to go through this procedure every time there is a positive test. First they notify close contacts that they have to stay home, then they notify the rest of the class/group that weren't close contacts that they should get tested and monitor symptoms, then they send a general notification to the school. And it's not just for classes, it's for before and after school care too. That's where Buster's close contact was.

[Rommie]

The one that gets me is I have cousins with kids all around New England (like, 7 schools all told) and all the kids who are in masks optional schools currently have clusters. Who'd have guessed THAT?! Just drives me bonkers that people care that much about masks in the first place.

On the bright side, sounds like they might finally allow a vaccine for Rooster as soon as later today! Fingers crossed for her. My niece turns 5 within a month, and my sister has magnanimously decided she doesn't need to get the shot on her birthday but will be doing so first thing the day after.

Side note on a different topic- all the towns around here have had a mask mandate since August. This weekend, Watertown lifted their mask mandate, and the border is actually just a few blocks from our house (closest store is on our town's side of a street that goes down the middle, Watertown is the other side of the same street, so guess that store will still have a mask mandate type thing). On the one hand I get it of course, on the other I do think public officials need to be more clear and remind the public about at what point such mandates will be lifted, and that messaging has been super absent around the latest mandates. Just my thought anyway.

[lady_*nix]

Starting tomorrow, MGH will have appointments for Moderna boosters for those who qualify... I qualify. I plan to try and grab an appointment before I sign into work.

Edit: got an appointment for Nov 9

[pumpkinpi]

I'm anxiously awaiting the CDC sign off on vaccines for ages 5-11! I'm going to do my darndest to have Rooster be as close to the first person that age vaccinated in MN.

One thing that worries me is there is some debate over whether to authorize it for all kids, or just at risk populations. But I suggest it's media overhype. They report that FDA's advisors "struggled with whether every young child needed a vaccine" but ultimately voted yes. Maybe that's just the media having to introduce some conflict in a report, and it was really just a small objection. That's my hope.

[Rommie]

Considering children are gigantic disease vectors I have a hard time believing it won't be approved for all children (pretty much anyone I know who got exposed lately is from their kid in school). Like, what's the difference between a 12 year old and an 11 year old? I really wish they hadn't taken that narrative in the media though, as there's surely going to be parents worrying about every little thing in getting their kid vaccinated.

Have you tried calling your pediatrician and seeing if they're doing a list or similar? Apparently that's a thing around here where people are pre-emptively setting up appointments later this month on the assumption that it'll get approved by then.

[Rommie]

Scheduled a booster for tomorrow. These days it turns out I qualify as someone working in education, and it's not like there's a lack of supply, and I have a bit of travel lined up for work and then the holidays so decided why not. Now I just need to figure out if I want to mix and match and get a Moderna one if I had Pfizer!

Sure hoping I'm not as out of it as I was after booster 2, because it wasn't super enjoyable, but anecdotally it sounds like most people don't have as strong a reaction the third time around.