Biden

[Rommie]

So, what do you all think?

First, caveat out of the way: I am still gonna vote for Biden no matter what, not because I'm in a cult about it but because the alternative cult is so damn terrifying and even less qualified. That said, I watched the debate, and holy fuck. It took quite a bit of that debate to make Trump seem like a better option, but that first half hour in particular (which, let's face it, is what people were gonna tune in and see before tuning away) was an unmitigated disaster. Like if the guy can't even string together a coherent argument on abortion, without finishing his statement, anyone who was hesitant about voting for Biden due to age is basically not gonna do it now (and that ABC interview was nowhere near better/ gonna dampen the discussion).

Like, I don't think he's got dementia or similar, because I've seen that. This is just a very old man who is not where he was 4 years ago, and certainly will be worse 4 years from now, and it's just impossible to believe on his own that Biden is the best candidate. (Also, mad as fuck at the Dem insiders who allowed it to get this far. They knew.)

Personally, I think he needs to step down in the next few days- find some health issue to save face, and tap Kamala Harris. She's certainly better than the Joe Biden who showed up for that debate, and was already on the ticket so it solves many problems regarding funding etc, and plenty of time to pivot in our fast media news cycle world before November. Definitely more than if Biden shows up to the debate in September and does the same thing.

I also btw think a lot of Dems are having not-helpful comments for the recent discussions surrounding this in getting all mad that people are- like, I know people are scared (I am too), but it is insanity to keep doing the same thing and think things are going to get better. And if you're going to show up no matter who it is and vote for Biden, well, you're not the target audience. The target audience are the people who voted Biden in 2020 in swing states who will not be voting for him again this year- not like they'd vote Trump, but will probably just stay home. I know a few, and right now I don't see how Biden can run a vigorous enough campaign to convince them they didn't see what they saw.

[lady_*nix]

Yeah... I'm terrified. It's ridiculous that our choices for President are limited to two senile old white men with genocidal predilections, and the best we can do is vote for the less genocidal one (i.e. Biden). This country needs radical change, and I think part of that has to be term limits and age limits for more offices.

For Biden's specific issue there's a term I've seen, "sundowning", a thing that happens under low light conditions in early dementia. A person who is coherent and intelligent in daylight can become very suddenly delirious in a dimmer area, esp. when there are lots of shadows. One of my roomies used to have an elder care job and thought Biden's display was pretty textbook.

But yeah, like you I'm still voting for him if he's the only option left. Four years of Trump wrecked my body, almost killed my best friend, and gave me a whole new layer of PTSD. Four more years of Trump might mean human extinction if he breaks the US climate agenda badly enough.

Also let's be real, in both cases we're voting for the advisors more than the candidate, and Biden's advisors are actually competent while Trump's are a mix of sycophants, psychopaths, and religious nutcases. I just hope that more people realize this instead of being all "bah whatever nothing matters".

Edit: BTW for any of you reading this and thinking, "Wow, the socialist LN supporting Biden! Shocking, hypocritical, she was always against him before!" Congrats, you were not paying attention. My position on Biden was never that he was good, only that he was necessary.

[Rommie]

Oh yeah, to be clear, I'm in the same boat for you on all the reasoning. But I suppose my concern is that Biden's great(est?) advantage over Trump has been trust- you trust him to do the right thing, and trust that the ship is gonna sail under a competent leader. My serious concern here is that Biden (and his team) have lost that trust, and on a level where it's impossible to get it back again. And let's be honest, all you need right now are a few thousand people in a key swing state to not show up because of that, and Trump wins.

Would they instead be more likely to show up for the "not Trump" candidate when it's not Biden? That's the real question- I don't think anyone has the answer to that, but I also think if people keep telling you the same thing you should listen to them.

[lady_*nix]

Yeah sorry I wasn't clear, that's basically my feeling about this - I'm worried enough people will take this as reason not to vote that the election will go to Trump.

Would they instead be more likely to show up for the "not Trump" candidate when it's not Biden? That's the real question- I don't think anyone has the answer to that, but I also think if people keep telling you the same thing you should listen to them.

IDK if it's even possible to tell one way or the other is the thing. Polls are only so reliable. But yeah, Biden's stubbornness and failure to take this seriously looks really bad to me.

On a related note...

The first indication I got that Biden would be the next Pres was from a former friend who had some pals in DC. (The "former" part is unrelated to her politics, though her politics were frankly lousy.)

One day in 2018 or so when we were having lunch together, she said a thing about how Biden was being groomed for the job, and how one of her Beltway friends insisted he was the only one who could win because, I quote, "The country is just not ready for a woman President." Obviously I was appalled at that idea, but she insisted it was just facts.

I kind of figured at a certain point that, IDK, maybe Beltway Guy was right - it was a disgusting state of affairs, but this country is pretty damn sexist. But now, with the specially groomed Mr. Electable center-left old straight white dude Pres being obviously too old for the job, I'm feeling very, very angry at Beltway Guy (whoever he was) and the consensus of men like him.

[lady_*nix]

It is now the Kamala Harris campaign! Yay! As stressful as this election cycle is (see for instance the thread on Project 2025), I am very looking forward to voting for a woman again, and a very progressive one at that.

[Rommie]

Yeah, that was a ride and a half. But wow, I know we are still going to have troubles ahead, but wow I'm in such a better mood about politics now. I realized the difference is knowing I now get to vote for someone who actually gets what I care about for a change.

Like ok, that's maybe not fair- I think Biden cared, but was just not at the point where he could articulate or act on those cares. Go watch his fumbling of the abortion question at the debate to see what I mean.

Sooooo, who do people want for Veep? I really like the idea of Mark Kelly myself, swing state, and astronaut, so we could have a space veep! And wow, imagine that debate- Mark Kelly detailing all the shit to being an astronaut and supporting his wife through a terrible shooting, JD Vance going all "I wrote a crappy memoir and think no fault divorce should be banned."