Why the hell are we praising the pope about gay people?

[geonuc]

What, Google is broke down there?

Gangnam style!

[Sigma_Orionis]

damned liberal..... grumble grumble

[Morrolan]

al least they passed on Miley Cyrus...

Hold on. Are you kidding? Was she actually considered? I mean, I'm not a Miley hater, but person of the year? Please!

this year's nominations:
• Bashar Assad, President of Syria

• Jeff Bezos, Amazon Founder

• Ted Cruz, Texas Senator

• Miley Cyrus, Singer

• Pope Francis, Leader of the Catholic Church

• Barack Obama, President of the United States

• Hassan Rouhani, President of Iran

• Edward Snowden, N.S.A. leaker

• Edith Windsor, Gay rights activist

. Kathleen Sebelius, Health and Human Services Secretary

[Rommie]

Seriously, anyone who looks at that list and doesn't think they're rigging the entire system for controversy really isn't paying attention.

[Swift]

Who is Psy?

He is a Korean pop singer. He had this koofy song that was a YouTube hit a while back.

The study of him is called "psychology" (OK, that part is a joke).

[Swift]

• Ted Cruz, Texas Senator
• Miley Cyrus, Singer

I think these two should have been co-winners, and forced to give a joint acceptance speech. And then they have a torrid love affair. Maybe Miley has his love child. Fox and E! would spin off a new co-owned network that would broadcast 24/7 coverage of MileyCruzGate.

[FZR1KG]

Person of the year?
That list more closely resembles wanker of the year.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Who is Psy?

He is a Korean pop singer. He had this koofy song that was a YouTube hit a while back.

The study of him is called "psychology" (OK, that part is a joke).

Yeah, after your fellow pinko commie liberal had the gall to demand I use Google to find out, I did exactly that.

Sounds like another version of Sanjaya.

• Ted Cruz, Texas Senator
• Miley Cyrus, Singer

I think these two should have been co-winners, and forced to give a joint acceptance speech. And then they have a torrid love affair. Maybe Miley has his love child. Fox and E! would spin off a new co-owned network that would broadcast 24/7 coverage of MileyCruzGate.

Now THAT would be a reality show I'd actually bother to watch.....

[Swift]

• Ted Cruz, Texas Senator
• Miley Cyrus, Singer

I think these two should have been co-winners, and forced to give a joint acceptance speech. And then they have a torrid love affair. Maybe Miley has his love child. Fox and E! would spin off a new co-owned network that would broadcast 24/7 coverage of MileyCruzGate.

Now THAT would be a reality show I'd actually bother to watch.....

You know, the Pubs are always trying to get the Latin vote... there's one already.

[geonuc]

• Ted Cruz, Texas Senator
• Miley Cyrus, Singer

I think these two should have been co-winners, and forced to give a joint acceptance speech. And then they have a torrid love affair. Maybe Miley has his love child. Fox and E! would spin off a new co-owned network that would broadcast 24/7 coverage of MileyCruzGate.

Now THAT would be a reality show I'd actually bother to watch.....

You know, the Pubs are always trying to get the Latin vote... there's one already.

I think the Pubs wrapped up the Sigma vote long ago. Dude seems to have an issue with commie pinko liberals.

[Sigma_Orionis]

I must admit that I tend to like the OLD Republican Party better, the one Ike Eisenhower belonged to. The current nutjobs need to be sent here to make their libertarian paradise though

[FZR1KG]

The current nutjobs need to be sent here to make their libertarian paradise though

Ain't that the truth.
Or, Libertarian paradise, Somalia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwjO0

[FZR1KG]

The current nutjobs need to be sent here to make their libertarian paradise though

Ain't that the truth.
Or, Libertarian paradise, Somalia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwjO0

[SciFi Chick]

This is definitely a good pope.

[FZR1KG]

This is definitely a good pope.

Yeah, got to agree.
Didn't realise he made that much change.

[Sigma_Orionis]

I say he's the Dark Pope and he brings the apocalypse.

[FZR1KG]

He also doesn't look like the the evil emperor in Star Wars.

[Sigma_Orionis]

That's because he has his "good guy makeup" on

[The Supreme Canuck]

What change? I'm still just seeing PR bafflegab.

[FZR1KG]

Change in such a large institution happens slowly.
More to the point it needs to happen slowly or it rebounds backwards.
Look at what happened in the USSR with Gorbachev.
He wanted to take things slower in transitioning to democracy and he was right.
It takes time for attitudes to change.
Bit like the turtle and the rabbit story.

The Catholic church I knew would never have allowed this sort of publicity.
I know many people including my cousin are totally shocked with the Pope.
That's a good start.

[The Supreme Canuck]

That's not my complaint. My complaint is that the entire bloody world is giving him more credit than he's due.

Pope: "Maybe gays aren't entirely awful. Still going to hell, though."

World's response: "BEST POPE EVER! THAT'S THE MOST UNBIGOTED THING I'VE EVER SEEN! THE CHURCH LOVES EVERYONE AND NO LONGER DOES ANYTHING WRONG!"

What the world's response should be: "Oh. That's nice. Good on him. Be nice if he changed some church doctrines to end real-world discrimination against gays by Catholics, though. Plus, you know, be good for him to stop thinking there's anything wrong with gays at all or that they're damned for eternity."

That's my issue.

[brite]

Pope: "Maybe gays aren't entirely awful. Still going to hell, though."

That's not what he said... what he said what it was not up to him to judge. That it was not up to the Church to judge. He is also trying to live a Christian life and lead by example, by living a far more humble life, filled with service to his fellow man. This is not something that most cardinals are accustomed to, let alone popes. Francis is an anomaly to the papacy. He is unique, not something that has been seen, probably since St Peter! He isn't totally hung up on the Pauline scripture, he isn't preaching hate, he IS preaching the New Testament, but the part of the New Testament that talks about love, and loving your fellow man, and how you are supposed to care for each other, help each other and love one another.

I'm not a Catholic (not any more, at any rate...), I'm not even Christian... But I think that this guy rocks. He's what I think that the Christian message SHOULD be. What Fisher shows me it could be. What my mother showed me it could be.

[The Supreme Canuck]

That's not what he said... what he said what it was not up to him to judge. That it was not up to the Church to judge.

The implication being that it is up to god to judge. And god says queers go to the hot place. Saying "it's not for us to judge" is a way to dodge responsibility; it's a way to look progressive without actually being progressive.

"Oh, if it were up to me, I'd be fine with gay people. But it's not. God says so. Too bad. Looks like they get to burn."

Rubbish.

He is also trying to live a Christian life and lead by example, by living a far more humble life, filled with service to his fellow man.

Yes, and good for him. That's commendable. But it doesn't justify the head-over-heels praise that he's getting. Which, as I said, is my complaint.

Lots of people live the same way. People aren't dropping to the ground to kiss their feet.

This is not something that most cardinals are accustomed to, let alone popes. Francis is an anomaly to the papacy. He is unique, not something that has been seen, probably since St Peter! He isn't totally hung up on the Pauline scripture, he isn't preaching hate, he IS preaching the New Testament, but the part of the New Testament that talks about love, and loving your fellow man, and how you are supposed to care for each other, help each other and love one another.

Except gays and atheists go to hell, and condoms are worse than AIDS. No substantive change on any of those. No substantive change on women. No substantive change on sexual abuse.

Colour me unimpressed.

I'm not a Catholic (not any more, at any rate...), I'm not even Christian... But I think that this guy rocks. He's what I think that the Christian message SHOULD be. What Fisher shows me it could be. What my mother showed me it could be.

Again, he talks a good game, sure. But he still hasn't actually done anything. Nothing to justify the "Catholicism has done a 180 and is now the biggest force for good in the universe" attitude that I'm seeing, at any rate.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Yes, and good for him. That's commendable. But it doesn't justify the head-over-heels praise that he's getting. Which, as I said, is my complaint.

Lots of people live the same way. People aren't dropping to the ground to kiss their feet.

Look at it this way:

- The lavish praise he's getting (deserved or not) amounts to public pressure on the conservatives of the catholic church.
- Color me a conspiracy theorist, but I still have this gut feeling that good ole Benedict's sudden retirement and Francis Boy's election are signs of a major power struggle within the Catholic Church (which knowing how those guys work, we'll find out in about 20 years or so). If that is the case, and judging from what little I know of the catholic church as an organization, I'd say he'll need the help of all the public pressure he can raise to get them to do something substantive.

[FZR1KG]

That's not my complaint. My complaint is that the entire bloody world is giving him more credit than he's due.

Pope: "Maybe gays aren't entirely awful. Still going to hell, though."

World's response: "BEST POPE EVER! THAT'S THE MOST UNBIGOTED THING I'VE EVER SEEN! THE CHURCH LOVES EVERYONE AND NO LONGER DOES ANYTHING WRONG!"

What the world's response should be: "Oh. That's nice. Good on him. Be nice if he changed some church doctrines to end real-world discrimination against gays by Catholics, though. Plus, you know, be good for him to stop thinking there's anything wrong with gays at all or that they're damned for eternity."

That's my issue.

I think your personal issues with the catholic church might be playing a bit of bias here.
This is a huge step for the catholic church. One that may end up biting him on the ass as it is.
You want results and you want them fast. That ain't going to happen.
This is the seed that has been sowed and it will take decades to get it to fruition.
And it was a big deal. Time will tell just how this will affect the church.
For all we know it may split into factions because of the overwhelming anti gay stance.
Go too fast and that's where it will go.
Then we get a progressive branch and an extremist branch.
Bigoted catholics living in isolation becoming more and more hateful till they start behaving like terrorists.
That would help nothing.