Love It or List It

[Thumper]

This is a question for my Canadian friends. I don't watch much TV, and I don't watch this show, but everyone else in my house does. Real quick, the basic set up is a family wants to improve their living conditions. Hillary gets a budget from them then designs a remodel of their current home to wow them into staying. David gets a budget from them and goes out and tries to find them a new home. In the final scene, the family decides whether to stay or move.

Here's my question: The show is shot in Canada in I believe the Toronto area. Most of these people look like regular middle class Joe's. The houses that David finds for them range from $600K to $900K. Some of these are small little townhouses with no yards in plain old crowded neighborhoods. Now Mrs. T and I are doing pretty good but we would never be able to afford a house half this expensive. Yesterday, there was a nice old brick 2 story. Small cramped rooms, a furnace (steam boiler) that was invented before fire, not much of a yard. If this house was in the nicest neighborhood in Columbus OH in the best school district, it would go for about $250K-275K. This house was listed for something like $800K. Is real estate really that overpriced in Canada or Toronto in specifically? Do regular young families around there make $400K or more/year?

[The Supreme Canuck]

If you are not at least upper middle class, you cannot own a home or a condo in Toronto. You will never afford it. Ever. A crappy 100-year-old single family home on a shitty lot in a crowded neighbourhood? Easily $750K to $1 million.

I lived in Toronto for four years. The last year I was there, I rented a really bad basement apartment. Uneven concrete floors, dodgy radiators, a scary boiler older than my grandmother, 5 foot ceilings, and asbestos. No real place to cook. No windows. I paid $800/month.

Unless you are rich, you cannot live like a human being in Toronto. And good luck affording a kid.

It isn't as bad in other parts of the country (except for Vancouver, where it's worse), but the housing market is incredibly overheated at the moment. Due for a collapse, I'd wager. But right now? Well. Let's look at this article. It was written in 2010. It compares Toronto's skyline as it was then to how it's going to look at the end of this year. Those new buildings are pretty much all condos. And none of them are cheap.

So. Yeah. Toronto. You can't live there unless you own an oil company.

[Cyborg Girl]

Welcome to America!

Oh wait a minute...

[The Supreme Canuck]

Yeah, it's to the point that I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that I'll never own a home or have a kid. That's crazy talk these days - just so out of reach for most people my age as to be not worth talking about.

[Swift]

Actually, the situation in Toronto doesn't sound all that different than New York, or Washington, DC, or London (UK) or Tokyo, or any of several other cities.

Another reason I like Cleveland.

[Thumper]

We noticed the condos when we visited a couple years ago. There were more high rise buildings currently under construction in the city than Columbus (or Cleveland) has buildings in total. However, it did seem to me (obviously) that ALOT of people lived "downtown" in the city. It seemed quite varied with regards to race, ethnicity, age etc. So are incomes inflated in the city as well? Because not all of these people I saw shopping and walking their dogs downtown appeared to be tycoons. I remember the restaurant (especially beer) prices were quite steep. But the nice hotel we've stayed at twice was reasonable.

[The Supreme Canuck]

There's a variety of income in the city, sure. But people on the low end rent. They cannot afford to own a house or condo. They probably also don't live right downtown on Bay St.

As to beer, that's because alcohol is heavily regulated at the provincial level. You can only get it at two chains of stores--one owned by the province and one by the brewers--which increases the price. The province also artificially inflates prices to discourage drinking for public health reasons. It also regulates beer sold to bars and restaurants. It's nine kinds of bullshit, and has to do with the particulars of Ontario's flirtation with prohibition and temperance. Basically, it's not a Toronto thing. It's an Ontario thing.

[Parrothead]

I've seen the show a couple of times. Yeah the prices in Toronto are high, there keeps being speculation of the bubble bursting. Loads of condos going up. 300 - 500k is the approx going rate for a semi-detached or townhouse and I'm being generous. As you move into the burbs you can get a detached for 600k +