THIS My Friends, is the difference....

[Sigma_Orionis]

Between you damned anglo-saxon-celtic-pict imperialists and we poor spiritually superior latinos.

You vote with your pocketbook, not for some stupid ethereal reason that usually ends in disaster.

Scottish independence: 'Economy matters most' to voters

Compare this with the debates they had in Puerto Rico regarding the status of the Island.

In 1898, when the damned gringos started flexing their "imperial muscles" (that would be the war with Spain) and most of us Latin Americans were scandalized that with all your talk about freedom from Europe you non-swarthy furriners had the gall to go to war (and even worse, to win) against the Motherland (that would be Spain) to get a hold of Cuba.

So scandalized were we that THIS idiot wrote a poem called "Ariel", which was considered the "answer to the aggression of 1898" where the two main characters: "Ariel" and "Caliban" represent the higher "spiritual" side of the human psyche and the baser "utilitarian" side of it respectively. You gringos of course were represented by Caliban, guess who was Ariel?.

With nonsense like that ruling over reason, it's not hard to understand how we ended up the way we are is it?.

[brite]

Here's the deal with the Scottish referendum... it's a simple yes/no question, 50%+1 wins, fully binding resolution. Oh yes, unlike the Quebec neverendum... this is a once in a lifetime question. Only people who are living in Scotland and registered to vote and are over the age of 16, may vote on this question. In other words, the Scots who are living and working in England, Wales, and Ireland are NOT eligible to vote on this question.

As for the economy... If Scotland manages to dissolve the Articles of Union (1707), their economy will go into the toilet. They will end up with pretty good chunk of the British national debt, they will be on the hook for their own pensions, social services, NHS, and defense. They have no tax base, as of yet. And they don't really have plans put out there for people to look at. (Sounds like a political group here... doesn't it??)

Most of the uproar has to do with something called the "bedroom tax". What it basically is a reduction in housing subsidies based on how many bedrooms you have in your apartment versus how many you really need. Family of 3 needs 2 bedrooms (parents share a room, child sleeps in own room). The problem is that Cameron is a moron and didn't think this one out... smaller places in council housing is hard to come by, and people who are eligible for the stipend are going to run into problems. Think of Cameron as the British answer to John Boehner...

[Sigma_Orionis]

Yeah, I read about the "bedroom tax" thing when reading about this article and about Cameron putting his shoe on his mouth. Notice that the VOTERS said that they care about the economy not about anything else. Which is the right attitude IMHO. So, I doubt very much they'll secede.

And if Cameron is the UK's answer to the US' John Boehner that would make Osborne the UK's answer to Paul Ryan right?

[Rommie]

One of my good friends is Scottish (but alas cannot vote in the upcoming election as he went to Oxford for school- those living abroad outside the UK first are eligible), and it's been fun to chat about it with him- he thinks it won't go through this time, but will if they try again in 20 years or so. To quote him, "my heart says I'd vote for independence, but my head tells me I shouldn't, so if I did have a vote I honestly don't know which way I would go."

Honestly I get it- on one level no one knows basic things like whether Scotland would be allowed to remain on the pound, and after so many years together a lot of details would get messy. But then there's a lot of history there and economics does come back into play once you realize people rarely factor in the North Sea oil money into things- if you ignore it then yes, Scotland gets something like 10% more per person than they put in, but if you put it in (and many official tallies don't as the UK Treasury considers it in another category) Scotland is actually putting in 10% more than they get in return. So it's not actually a "wow, they'd be screwed!" concept as you'd think compared other countries.

So we'll see how it goes- honestly the other thing I find noteworthy is Catalonia is really pushing for a referendum these days, but Spain keeps saying no because it's the wealthiest region and subsidizing a lot of poorer regions in Spain. I think when things are bad locals being in charge of their own destiny rather than sharing the pot becomes incredibly popular, particularly in regions that were never treated particularly well to begin with. (Last I heard the Catalans asked Spain if they could hold a referendum, Parliament refused, they plan to anyway because not like Franco will send in the tanks again.)

Finally, re: the bedroom tax in the UK, the thing to remember is unlike in the US a lot of housing is owned by the government which is partially subsidized- it used to be well over half of all housing at one point, and is still high- meaning waiting lists are always an issue, and people were frustrated that a family whose kids moved out long ago could keep a four bedroom place indefinitely and get help for that when a young family was stuck in a place too small for them. And because the British are really into austerity these days it was an easy subsidy to cut, but it forces people to move long distances or (gasp) go to the private sector. And in a place like Scotland where unemployment is higher that stuff really matters (Scotland is the bastion of Labor- my Labor friends are concerned if Scotland leaves because then apparently they only would've won like three elections in the last century).

Yeah, I now know more about UK politics than I ever thought I would, guess it comes with the territory.

[brite]

A friend of mine (on the other side of the political realm) thinks that Scotland will vote no. The thinking is that Scotland, while having the revenue of the North Sea, it's pretty well played out. Scotland has it's own Parliament and has had it since 98(?), but at this point, they don't have an economic plan in the wings, just in case this goes through.

Economics aside, the other major bone of contention is the British nukes. The Scots want them moved out, and that is where they want to put their Naval headquarters. (On the Leith, I believe) But the Scots don't have much in the way of a Navy, so...

[FZR1KG]

When they go independent their currency will initially start at one Scottish Penny is equivalent to 3000 English pounds.
Because everyone knows a Scott won't part with his money.